Anthem Magazine

Sean Baker’s Anora picked up the Palme d’Or at this year’s Cannes Film Festival. The film is boundlessly alive with a quality we continually associate with Baker, who is among the most humanist filmmakers working today. Unfolding wildly with an often-comedic tone through impeccably orchestrated and high-energy set pieces laced with wise-cracking troupers, Anora is audacious filmmaking, and also earns the old cliché of a “star-making turn.” The only question is, whose star will Anora make? One obvious answer is Mikey Madison in the titular role. It’s also impossible not to be taken by her scene-stealing co-stars: Yura Borisov and Mark Eydelshteyn.

When we’re first introduced to Anora—she prefers to go by Ani—we know that exotic dancing and sex work is a matter-of-fact livelihood for her. Sparkling, self-possessed, and quick on her feet, she’s very, very good at what she does. This goes without saying: The strip club Ani works at attracts all manner of losers. Yet, some of these deadbeats are more solvent than others. For instance, Ivan, or Vanya as he’s colloquially known, is the spoilt son of a Russian oligarch with free run of his parents’ Brighton Beach mansion. He altogether has more money than he knows what to do with, idling away like a horny, college-aged Richie Rich. Ani is charmed by his vivaciousness—and, yes, his money, too. Not before long, Ivan is asking Ani to spend time with him outside the club. For a fee, or course. There are freewheeling shopping sprees and happy days—private planes and limos and cocaine and fireworks and dancing and morning-after IV drips. Then, Ivan pops the question during an impromptu Las Vegas getaway. It’s only after their Vegas wedding that the souffle collapses in spectacular fashion. Once news reaches Ivan’s parents back in Russia that their son has married a “hooker,” they call upon their network of associates to get the marriage annulled. This includes a “gopnik” goon named Igor (Borisov), who is sad-eyed and unexpectedly sweet-natured, and tasked with getting Ani off the family’s compound. Little do they know that Ani has teeth, a fighting spirit, and more backbone than any of them could ever imagine.

Anthem reached out to Borisov and Eydelshteyn in Moscow to discuss life, before and after Anora.

Anora is now in theaters.

[Editor’s Note: The following conversations have been lightly edited for clarity.]

MARK EYDELSHTEYN

Hi, Mark. How are you?

Not really bad. It’s rainy and cloudy. I like this weather. Today’s my first day off in a long time.

You’ve been shooting something new?

Yes, TV and feature. And today I’m reading Werner Herzog book called Future of Truth. Reading Werner Herzog is like working day. [laughs] ‘Cause it’s huge work. I highly recommend this book.

He’s one of a kind.

One of the best.

When did you first encounter his work?

First year of my education in Moscow Art Theatre School. We had this class. When you’re acting, it’s performance, but there is also performance like Marina Abramović, for example. We discovered different artists doing rare type of modern art. In class, we talked about Werner Herzog.

Your performance in Anora floored me. I saw the film in South Korea.

South Korea is one of my dreams. I wanna go there. You are living in the future, man.

That’s the scope of your platform now. You’re reaching global audiences.

Honestly, I can remember life before Anora. Because of Anora, I’m thinking a lot about future. For example, in three days, I’m flying to Los Angeles for some screening, and then we will fly somewhere else. And then I return back here to Russia. Where will our team be in one month? I will fly somewhere else and live on bags. You have no time to understand what’s happening ‘cause you’re living in the future. You’re living in your next flight. You’re living on your next screening. And even when you’re at a screening, you’re thinking about the next screening. What will I say? What will be my answer to these questions? It’s better to think about past ‘cause it’s grounded. It’s about your base. Right now, I feel that I have no base. I’m just in the middle of some space.

That says everything, doesn’t it? Life before and after Anora. This is a huge milestone.

Sure, sure. Man, before Anora, I thought it’s about frame of mind, if you know what I mean. Before Anora, it wasn’t foreign festivals. Well, only one time—Berlinale. We were there with The Land of Sasha. At that moment, I saw that there is global space. There’s huge industry of cinema, and culture in general. And you can be part of this culture and part of this global industry. After Berlinale, I kept working at home to raise my skills, to learn something new and to be more educated in this profession. After Anora, now, really, I can feel some power inside me. I finished my university and have diploma. I’m full of some ideas and themes. I know what stories I can tell. I know that I can tell them with my tools: my language, my tongue, my body, my eyes. Now I’m thinking about my skills inside global space. What can I offer? What can I offer to global space?

Was Anora an intimidating proposition for you?

It was really scary ‘cause Ivan is antagonist of this movie. He’s like a bad guy. Igor is a good guy. Igor is a hero. I’m an anti-hero. Before Anora, I was stuck in these romantic characters, like some boy with curly hair who was falling in love and helping to some girl and trying to save the world—or something like this. [laughs] When I read Anora, I thought, “Okay, now I have to do something to be also bad guy. How will I do it?” It was really scary. Big challenge for me. We worked a lot with Sean [Baker]. We tried to build this character with lots of details in the first part of the movie where I am romantic character. We put some hints that it’s not a good guy. He’s not. It’s just a lie. He’s a kid. He’s a very dangerous kid. He can hurt any feelings. You can see it. If you watch it again, you’ll understand that we put these antagonist features in the very beginning of the movie. Without it, it’s impossible to believe he is completely evil person in the end. We will not believe in this evil person’s behavior and actions in the end of movie. We think a lot about his journey and adventure. It’s like in my university. Always, my teacher said that you have to know about your character’s dreams and pain. And these two things are in conflict. You’re working with this—how can I say it?—substance. His dream and his pain. Where is he going? What stopped him? What’s the problem? Your problem always is your pain and your fears. We talked a lot about it. It was the biggest challenge. And through this challenge, I approached the project. It’s part of Sean Baker universe. That’s the Sean Baker movie. It’s the world of the guys from Red Rocket, The Florida Project, and even Prince of Broadway. These are guys from one earth, and I can be part of this universe if I’m putting some part of my soul into working with Sean. His earth is full of small people with big dreams, if you know what I mean. And not only big dreams—real dreams.

And what is Ivan’s dream?

Thank you for this question. I worked with the theme of home. What is home? Is it a place or is it people or is it a feeling? How can we get home? How can we lose home? Through what can we find home? What is home for your soul? What is home for your feeling? Ivan’s story is like The Odyssey. It’s a guy who, before the movie, run out from home. He’s trying to find new home. He ran away from his home in Russia ‘cause he had no love with his family. He finds Anora and really fall in love with her. They start to live in this mansion together and that was home. But the world is more complicated. There is something more powerful than you, and it can steal your home. He loses his home. In the very end, he’s returning to his original home in Russia, but when he returns, he is another character with another identity. Home is inside you. Home is always with you.

Tell me about your experience watching the film for the first time.

First time I watch the movie at Cannes, it’s anxiety ‘cause the audience is really different. They’re all people from different countries and they’re speaking in different languages. What’s even more important is that there are different culture codes. Will they understand our sense of humor? That was really important for me. Will they understand our jokes? Will they feel our purpose? Will they feel that it’s not just entertainment movie? Lots of very important questions for us, for everyone who made this movie with Sean. I really wasn’t sure it will work. I was sure that it will work like entertainment movie ‘cause it’s interesting one. Every Sean Baker movie is very interesting. But we put a little bit more than just interesting things there. It’s a balance of humor and fun with drama and difficult, huge questions. How can I say it? We’re asking all-over-the-world questions.

Yeah, universal questions.

Yes, yes. And when movie at Cannes finished and all people stand and clap and cried, I understood that it works. They approved it. They felt it. I was really happy. Honestly, Sean Baker is magical.

Sean believed in you. He cast you, so he obviously trusted you. I know he also expanded your role after you were cast because he knew that he wanted to see more of you in the film. When did you first start trusting Sean? So much of filmmaking is built on mutual trust.

This is amazing question. I think it happened during our first Zoom meeting, before I was approved on this character. It was after I sent to Sean my self-tape. He said that he wanted to talk with me via Zoom. We talked. It was first time I see his eyes. I know it’s like a stereotype: blue eyes, very deep. But it’s true. I saw the ocean in his eyes. [laughs] I saw and understood that, first of all, he’s a humanist. It’s huge that he is humanist person—maybe one of the most important right now in the cinema industry. He’s very kind. And he really cares about the characters. He really cares about the audience. This is his kid, this movie. Sometimes you’re talking with a director and you understand that it’s just work for him. He’s just doing work. He will do this movie and then next movie. In the moment that I saw his eyes, I understood that it’s the most important thing in his life right now. Plus, he’s very kind person and a humanist. And he has same sense of humor like me. At that moment, I said for myself, “If he will approve me, I will give him everything I can give him.”

That’s a beautiful thing to say about your director.

I never saw Sean in sunglasses. Never. Every person always can see his eyes. He’s living in Los Angeles. We did our movie in New York and sometimes it was full of sun, and you always can see his eyes. It’s amazing. It’s just interesting fact. Sean is not using sunglasses. He’s not hiding.

All eyes are on you, too. How do you feel about the way you’re portrayed in the media so far?

It is truly me. I’m trying to be honest when I’m giving interviews. I’m a little bit more depressed person than Ivan. I’m a little bit more sad. But when I’m talking about Anora, I’m full of happiness and full of warm feelings. I’m always smiling when I’m talking about this movie and about this experience. I’m smiling right now because it’s something really bright in my life. It’s really bright thing. When I’m talking about this movie, it’s not real Mark, and it’s real Mark ‘cause this movie happened to me. Before Anora, it’s another person. I’m not often smiling like now. My eyes are a little bit more tired usually, a little bit more depressed. It is not real me in interviews—it’s like me plus my experiences in Anora. I’m just a little bit more hyped in interviews than I really am.

You’re so real for saying that. You also once said you started acting because you didn’t know know how to do anything else. Maybe you were exaggerating. In any case, you’re good at it.

I’m really trying to be good in it ‘cause I have this responsibility. I’m very lucky person. I’m working with incredible directors right now: Sean Baker, Aleksandr Andryushchenko, Anton Mamykin, Juliet Raffi… After Berlinale, I understood that it’s a huge responsibility ‘cause not every Russian movie go there. It’s a big honor and a big challenge to be the person who has this opportunity to be not just in home industry, but in the global industry. I have to raise my level.

You’re rising to the occasion?

Yes. I will do it in my own industry, and it will make global space better. I will do everything that I can. I’m trying to do maximum. Honestly, I’m burning very fast. I know it. Some actors who are older than me say, “Mark, Mark, Mark. Relax. You have the whole life. It’s a long distance. It’s a long journey. You have to save yourself.” But right now, I can’t save myself. When you’re working with Sean Baker, you can’t save yourself. You have to give everything that you have. When I worked with Yuliya Trofimova, I thought, “No, no, no. I can’t save myself ‘cause we are doing this movie and this is amazing script. It’s amazing story. I have to put in this movie everything that I can put in this movie. It’s all-or-nothing way ‘cause, if not me, there will be another guy who will put everything that he has. I will give it and I will present it.” Now I feel that I’m burning. I’m not sleeping. I’m sleeping, but I have to sleep more. I know it. I have to relax a little bit more. Sometimes I can understand that my mind is already tired. It’s a little bit more difficult to speak with people my ideas. I forget the words. Your ideas get confused. But I’m doing everything that I can. We can say that I am good in it, but not ‘cause I’m very talented. It’s luck. It’s the hand of God or something. In this industry, nothing really good is happening without the hand of God, I think.

I’m going to be speaking with Yura [Borisov] soon. He understands all of this better than anyone, right? Everything you’re going through and processing, he is right there with you.

You’re right. Yura is one of the most incredible actors that I know. He is one of the most incredible people. I feel that Yura is my older brother. He’s not even teacher ‘cause there is difference. Teacher is looking at you from high level, top to bottom. When it’s your brother, you are talking on same level. We are talking on one level, and Yura has much more experience than me. I’m very grateful to him that he’s sharing with me. He shared with me this project. We were together first time in America. It’s really scary when you’re alone in this amazing, huge country. But I was not alone. We discussed every shooting day. I discuss with him every scene. I suggested something for him and he suggested something for me. Without him, it would be different journey completely.

Why do you think Yura recommended you to Sean?

Honestly, I don’t know. But ‘cause I know Yura a little bit, I think he just said to Sean, “I know some guy and he can do it.” Yura is not a person who is overthinking. He’s not overthinking person. He is impulse person first. It was his first impulse. Always, he believes in his first impulse. And I think he doesn’t think anything more about it. He was just happy that we are there together. I was happy ‘cause we know each other. And he watched my movie, The Land of Sasha, and understood I’m not really bad. [laughs] Not incredible actor or something, but not really bad.

I’m eager to see more of your work. Apart from Anora, what are you most proud of?

I think it’s Guest From the Future, of course. It’s based on the Soviet Union novel. It’s about girl from another planet in the future and her relationship with a boy in the present. And I’m pretty sure that this independent movie by Anton Mamykin—it’s not finished yet—will premiere in the beginning of next year or in summer of next year. That’s a very important character for me ‘cause I always have some amazing partners like Yura or Sasha Petrov or Aleksey Serebryakov.

What’s that independent movie called?

Sanding Dreams. In this movie, I am alone. I am with Dasha [Ekamasova], but Dasha is not talking in this movie. It’s just always in silence. It’s important role for me. And it was a big challenge.

You have a long, exciting journey ahead of you. What do you want to be remembered for?

I want to be remembered like a guy who showed that you can be a dreamer. For the whole life, the whole distance, you can keep dreams inside of you. Everything is possible. Nothing can stop you. If somebody will say, “That guy did Anora when he was 22. It was amazing movie. It was a good performance. Nothing stopped him. He keeps doing amazing movies. Now he’s 75 and working. He’s directing. He’s composing. He’s writing scripts. Wow, this guys is doing everything. Nothing is impossible. If this guy did it, you can.” And one more thing: “This guy was full of love.”

YURA BORISOV

Hi, Yura. How are you?

Fine, fine. I just come back to Moscow today. One day ago, I finished my last movie [Devyataya planeta]. It’s a little bit frustrating, trying to feel real life again after that expedition.

Was it a world away from what you did on Anora?

Yes. Literally, it’s about a different planet. It’s a fantastic movie.

Do you have plans to return to America soon? You’re nominated for a Gotham Award.

It sounds that way. We have some plan for going back to America in a couple weeks.

You gave my favorite performance of the year. I’m going to be very upset if you don’t win…

[laughs] Thank you so much.

It’s a powerful performance, played with so much restraint. You do so much with what little dialogue you have. Surely, Sean [Baker] knew you were capable of that.

At the Cannes Film Festival in 2021, Sean saw Compartment Number 6.

What then? He calls you and offers you this role?

He was in the process of writing the script. He just called me: “If you want, let’s go together.”

How did you approach and develop this character?

We did it together, with Mikey [Madison] and Mark [Eydelshteyn] and Karren [Karagulian] and Vache [Tovmasyan]. We spend a lot of time together to discuss our characters, the connections between them, and all the situations. Sean every time asked us, “What do you think about that place?” With me he asked, “Could Igor do this? How can he do this in that way?” After discussing, he could make some scene. We were very open to each other. It was a really interesting process.

There was a lot of opportunity for improvisation, too, right? Do you enjoy that process?

I like improvisation. Every time, I’m waiting for space for doing this. This was a very right place for improvisation because everybody feel each other, and Sean could give freedom to us inside takes. It’s like a laboratory for situations and characters. Sean says, “Let’s try to go that way,” and then we try. After that, we could change everything and go in a super different way. We’ll see what’s changing. It’s very, very interesting for me. It’s the most interesting way for shooting.

How many times have you watched Anora now?

Three times. Once at the premiere in Cannes. Second time in Los Angeles for premiere two. Third time in Russia. It was a version dubbed in Russian. It was a different feel. 

I can imagine. How could it not be?

Of course, absolutely. Different experience. You can go to the cinema to see Anora and after that buy ticket for next hour and see again and it’ll be different because of breadth of people. It’s every time different, I feel. At the premiere in Cannes, it’s special every time. I had already three premieres there [Anora, Compartment Number 6, and Petrov’s Flu]. It’s a very, very big screen. It’s thousands of people. Every time, the first time, you sit in your place and you are very wet.

Sweaty?

Yes, yes. [laughs] You feel very uncomfortable. At the same time, you are very happy that you are moving right now and see a lot of people. All together, you have this experience. It’s a very interesting feeling. After that, you stand up and people applause. It’s like going into space.

You and Mikey created magic together. And I was so invested in whatever their ambiguous relationship is in the movie. I just want to see more. Would you follow them into a sequel?

It’s interesting! I wanna discuss it with Sean, firstly. I’m sure it is not interesting for Sean.

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by NEON (@neonrated)

By the end of it, I found myself caring deeply for Igor. Yet, we don’t know anything about him, really. We’re given crumbs, right? When Igor says his car belonged to his grandmother, it’s a detail so small, but still endearing. As a performer, you obviously know so much more.

Yes. Generally, I don’t want to explain it because I want to give you perception.

You want to give the audience space to imagine who he could be.

Yes, yes. I just want your perception to be more white. It could be more white if you, by yourself, thinking about his history, his background. Of course, I know it. I just don’t wanna give it to you. It’s like a book. Books are more interesting than films for me because you can draw by your own imagination better than someone else. It’s all the same. You could start thinking about his story and remember about your friend very near to Igor. You can decide that “It’s like my friend” or “It’s like me” or “It’s like my dad” or “It’s like my brother.” Finally, for you, it’s more important because it’s not far. It’s not another person. It’s a person from your life, and it’s already kind of your story.

Is the dynamic between Igor and Ani something you wish to keep ambiguous? Because you wonder, is Igor just protective? Is he being a nice guy? Or are there true romantic feelings?

I think that it’s all together. He’s trying to understand every time what he has to do with this. If I could explain to you by words, all his feelings, it would be better for me to be a writer than actor. That’s why I can just show it to you. I could do it better than explain by words, you know?

That’s an excellent point. So, I spoke to Mark yesterday. We talked about trust, which is so important in filmmaking and to having fruitful collaborations. When did you trust Sean?

I’ve seen his films. That’s it. It’s more than enough.

Was there a moment on set when you realized you were making something really special?

No, I didn’t have idea. Of course, it was special for us. For me. For all our crew. But I absolutely was not ready for winning Cannes and all this which right now is happening with this film.

You’re so good. You make it look easy. Did you find this role particularly challenging?

No.

Oh.

[laughs] Going to America, discovering new culture and new people, to me, that was the challenge. That’s why I can say it was challenge for me. At the same time, energy of new country and new people and new culture was part of the energy of Igor. Something like that. Does it make sense?

Sure it does. I know what it’s like to experience America for the first time.

Where are you from?

I’m originally from South Korea.

You’re first human from South Korea which I’m speaking. I’m speaking with South Korea.

I’m honored. And I’m sure it was comforting to know that Mark would be on this movie with you. It was his first time in America, too. How did you know to recommend Mark to Sean?

Why did I recommend Mark to Sean?

Well, yeah.

I recommended Mark because his energy is crazy. And his talent. I just wanna help Sean make this role super interesting for his film. I met Mark around half of year before I told Sean about him. Sometimes, it’s happening between people. You feel each other. It’s interesting to work together. 

How did you get to where you are now? Where did it all begin?

It’s kind of stupid because I never thought about acting seriously. I was 16. I was finishing school and have to decide which university I’m going. I really absolutely didn’t want thinking about this. [laughs] I just wanna live my life and don’t think about education or anything serious. Finally, I understood that I don’t have time for preparation for anywhere. So I just learn some poem for exam to theatrical university. It was the easiest way for me, that moment, when I was finishing school.

That was a really good decision you made.

[laughs] Okay, okay.

Were your parents supportive?

I wrote to my mom on paper: “I promise to graduate university without money.” In Russia, you can study in university and country pays for your school. But you have to be on a list after exams, you know? She said to me it’s impossible to enter theater university. And I said, “No, it’s possible. This is my signature.” Finally, of course, they support me. They support me in everything in my life.

I’m sure they’re insanely proud of you.

Of course, of course. And I’m very happy about this. They’re proud of me and support me.

I know we just met, but I’m proud of you, too.

[laughs] Thank you, thank you. It’s very important to me.

Have your parents seen Anora?

Yeah.

What did they say?

They like it. But I can’t understand what’s bad or not bad for them because they just love me and love everything which I do. That’s why it’s a bad idea asking them about some films with me.

Apart from Anora, what films are you most proud of? What do you recommend that I watch?

You could see Compartment Number 6. You could see Captain Volkonogov Escaped. I think Captain Volkonogov Escaped could be interesting for you, maybe, if you’re from South Korea.

What goals do you have left, Yura?

I have just one goal: live interesting life, and my family and people around me be healthy, happy.